Ajvar: the world-famous Balkan roasted red pepper and eggplant relish. Smokey, deep, rich. Unforgettable.
Even if you know very little about Balkan cuisine, you probably heard someone mention,Β ajvar (pronounced "AY-vahr").
Ajvar is a relish (spread, preserve) made primarily with eggplantsΒ and red, bull's horn sweet peppers, called so due toΒ their long, thick, pointy appearance reminiscent of a horn.
These peppersΒ are known as "roge" in the region.Β You may come across them under the name of Β Italian "corno di toro"Β - bullβs horn - peppers. (Don't confuse them with hot cow horn peppers.)
Your best bet is to look for these peppers at the farmer's market. If you can't find them, go for regular bell peppers. They must be the red kind though.
(Some recipes call for more ingredients likeΒ garlic and chillies.)
Ajvar'sΒ sometimesΒ referred to as chutney. But every chutney I've ever had had been sweet. Like jam or marmalade. And while ajvar can, and often does have sweet undertones, it more closely falls under the relish or spread category.
A relish is defined as a condiment made by cooking, pickling, or chopping a fruit or a vegetable.Β However, this definition is too simplified for ajvar.
For one, when we think of relish, most of us think chopped pickles in little bags at fast food places. (My dad loved relish. He used to ask for it at McDonald's. Except they rarely had it at McDonald's. They'd get annoyed. He'd get upset. His next step was to ask for a Pepsi. Then the war was really on.)
Secondly, a condiment is a sauce added to food to impart a flavor. Certainly ajvar can be, sometimesΒ is, added to food to enhance itsΒ flavor.Β But ajvar is also independent.
It doesn't need anything to enhance it, nor does it need to enhance anything. It'sΒ most flavorful, most rich when spread in a thick layer on aΒ piece of homemade bread.Β You can't do the same with sauces or salsas.
As evident, Iβm not completely sold on categorizing ajvar.
One prepares ajvar by first roasting eggplants and peppers, and then peeling, chopping, and finally cooking them. Industrial ajvar (store ajvar) usually consists of ingredients which have only been cooked. Don't eat this kind.
I'd hate for you to miss out on its realΒ taste.
On its richness, and smokiness. On all the effort peppers and eggplants gave roasting in the oven. On all the timeΒ that goes into preparation, returned tenfold in that finalΒ moment when, after spending several hours with only one goal in mind, you understand you just may have achieved your highest culinary point as of yet.
If you still decide to go with a store brand, there are two things you can do.
One is to look for theΒ BaΕ‘ Ajvar brand. (This is not an advertisement.) Itβs the best industrial ajvar although their quality declined in the past few years. What surprised me is that BaΕ‘ Ajvar exported to the US is better than the one in Sarajevo stores.
It must be the Nutella effect. Did you know there are different quality Nutellas? Nutella you buy in Germany is better than the one you buy in Serbia for example. (It makes you a disappointed with humanity to find these things out.)
Secondly you can buy any ajvar and improve it.
A lot of people do it this way. They get several jars of ajvar and smaller quantities of peppers and eggplant. Then they roast peppers and eggplants, peel them, chop them, and cook everything together with the store ajvar. (Iβll write up a recipe for this sometime.) This is the best way to make ajvar and control its taste without having to do it from scratch.
It's hard to pinpoint where ajvar originated, as it's made all over ex-Yugoslavia. If you want my advice, donβt ask people from the Balkans where things come from. Especially regarding something as basic as ajvar, the spread for which each family has a preparation technique spanning over generations.
(A digression. I watched a documentary aboutΒ Danes being happiest people in the world. They asked someone from Denmark why they thought this was so. The person said it was because everyone belongs to a club of some kind.Β
"If a few people got stuck in an elevator for twenty minutes together, they'd probably come out having formed a club for people who get stuck in elevators,"Β they said.
On the other end of the spectrum we have people from different ex-Yu countries, who, if stuck on an elevator together, wouldnβt all come out alive. Of course, this changes when you take them away from the Balkans. In other countries, they're brothers.)
Today's recipe for ajvar is my mom's.
The process is extensive. You'll need a weekend to do it. Itβs easiest to work over two days. For example, start on Friday evening, work into the night, and continue the following day until finished.
I donβt recommend you go the easy way.
Why? Because the quantity of ingredients is too small to make real ajvar.
If you take anything from this article let it be this: you canβt make fantastic ajvar with five peppers and an eggplant!
Food cooked in large quantities tends to be better. Why the food made at aΒ scout summer camp, or in the army is betterΒ I donβt know. Because of the huge pot in which it simmers for hours? Or something about preparing a larger quantity of ingredients all at once that makes it just right? It just is.
By the way, I chose momβs recipe because her ajvar tastes better than any other I've tried. HundredsΒ of people agree. If you make it her way, youβll never make it any other way again.
She cooks it longer. Itβs sweeter than most, has a smooth, consistent spreading quality, and is a deeper, darker orange. (When buying ajvar, one giveaway itβs not particularly good is if itβs bright orange.)
Also, momβs ajvar does not contain garlic, while many ajvar recipes do.
Garlic is like a dear friend you donβt send an invite for every occasion. To your ajvar jar, for one. It overpowers it and it doesn't keep well.
Itβs best if ajvar making becomes a family affair. Get everyone involved. Youβll make wonderful memories this way.
Itβs the memories of the falls before the war which inspired me to make ajvar with mom this year. A lot of change affected our family over recent years. We experienced many losses. One of them dad.
Profound loss led us to discover importance of traditions. Rituals whichΒ roll on after we're gone. For you it may be a book which when passed on to new generations, will be readΒ by someone who by that very act will be getting to know you, the long gone relative who once pondered the same thoughts.
A tradition can also be making ajvar together each year, even if the familyΒ changedΒ by circumstances beyond control.
Back before the war, every fall there was a period of time when moms and grandmas prepared zimnica;Β zima meaning the winter, andΒ zimnica being the food for the winter. ItΒ was a way to conserve things we couldnβt get to the following few months. It generally consisted of fruit and vegetablesΒ preserved, cooked, and fermented.
In that period you couldnβt find strawberries in the store all year long. You ate them fresh in late spring,Β and in ice creams and desserts in the summer. During fall and winter, strawberries came as marmalades, jams and preserves.
The time for preparation, death, rebirth and bloom. Changing of the seasons meant witnessing nature's winter death and spring rebirth. There was the time to sow and the time to reap.
Going back to zimnica, itΒ also meant preparing ajvar. Going to the large farmerβs market, and picking up bright red, plump, bullβs horn peppers that came in colorful threaded bags from which peppers protruded out like curious spectators. We'd pickΒ out indigo, fat eggplants too, and the eggplants and peppers got acquainted in the car on the ride back home.
Then started the adventure that would finish up in small jars of ajvar, stacked on the kitchen counter like Tetris. The aroma of ajvar was one ofΒ comfort, of cooking, of a warm and inviting home, where good people lived.
A home, where no matter how cold it was outside, there was no winter.
BLB APPROVED AJVAR RECIPES AROUND ON THE WEB
I'm a big fan of travel blogs. I'm an even bigger fan of bloggers who travel for food and pleasure. Anthony and Leila from recipehunters do exactly that! They pick a place and then immerse themselves in local food and customs.
They did a greatΒ ajvar recipeΒ when they visited Imotski in Croatia. I am linking to it because the preparation method is different. Peppers and eggplant aren't roasted but are cooked, first in water then oil.
However you can immediately see by looking at it that it's good ajvar.Β Trust me, once you make ajvar few seasons in a row you'll be able to recognize how good it is just by sneaking a peek.Β So if you're not into roasting, theirs is an excellent ajvar option for you.
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Ajvar: The Ultimate Guide to Balkan Roasted Red Pepper And Eggplant Spread
- Category: Side Dish
Ingredients
- AJVAR:
- 23-25 pounds red bullβs horn peppers (or red bell peppers)
- 8-9 pounds eggplants (medium to large)
- 3 to 4 cups vegetable oil (about 1 liter bottle)
- 1 tablespoon sugar
- 2 tablespoons salt
- JARRING:
- 2 cups vegetable oil
- EQUIPMENT:
- Few pairs of latex gloves (optional but recommended)
- Meat grinder
- Large pot
- Several jars with lids
- Foil
Instructions
- Heat oven to 480F, or if you are using a wood stove, heat it up high.
- Thoroughly wash, then pat dry whole eggplants and horn peppers. If you are using a wood stove, place foil on top of it and roast the peppers first. If using a regular stove, use both racks. (If you only have one rack then use the rack plus the bottom of your oven.) Cover a baking sheet with foil (or the rack itself if you don't have a baking sheet), and line it with as many peppers as you can, leaving a bit of space between them, then place inside. Repeat for the second rack, or bottom of the oven. You'll have to do this in two to three batches for the peppers.
- Roast peppers for about 25-30 minutes (check once or twice), then turn them over if theyβre done on the bottom end. They should have little black patches here and there, and the skin will be coming up. Theyβll also be soft, and will exert some of their fluid. For the next 20-25 minutes frequently check the peppers, and turn them to the side if necessary to make sure theyβre roasted on all sides. At about 50-55 minutes of roasting, they should be completely roasted. Donβt be overly concerned with time, instead, watch that peppers are completely roasted, but not burned. Itβs possible that one rack will be done, while the other still needs a little bit of time. So the timing here is only an indication. All depends on your oven and peppers.
- Take the roasted peppers out. Place them in a couple of different bowls, and cover bowls with plastic bags, making sure to seal really well. Leave to cool overnight.
- Repeat the previous two steps for all peppers.
- At this point roast eggplants the same way as peppers. They may need a little bit less time, but itβll depend on your oven. When done the eggplants will also βraiseβ their skin, and will also have a few brown black patches. Theyβll be soft and moist. After youβre done, place them in bowls and cover with plastic bags (optionally you can leave them in a bowl overnight uncovered). Leave to cool overnight. (This is a good stopping point. You are welcome to peel the same day, you can even cook ajvar the same day. But itβll tire you. Also itβs good to give the veggies some time to cool off. Itβll be easier to peel them, and youβll protect your hands from burns.)
- The following day, start peeling eggplants and peppers. This part is messy, so protect your working area, whether itβs the floor or the table or the counter. Prepare a large bowl with water, and one to two large bowls in which youβll place peeled peppers and eggplants. Also prepare a few plastic bags youβll use for trash. (If ever, this is the time to get your family involved. Peeling is a long and tedious process.) Put on your gloves. Start peeling peppers by removing the stem and discarding it. Then flatten out the pepper so you can see its insides, and dip in water to remove the seeds. The next step is to peel off all of the skin, and black dots that formed while roasting. This is a tricky part as you may lose some of the pepper meat, and even some of the peppers, as they might be of a bad quality and are too thin to peel. You can peel them with your fingers or a knife. Youβll find you have a preferred way of doing it. Once a pepper is peeled, transfer it to a dry bowl and repeat this process until all your peppers are peeled.
- Move on to peeling eggplants by cutting off eggplant stem and discarding it. Then use a knife to take off its skin and black dots that formed while in the oven, while keeping as much meat and seeds in tact as possible. You will be using seeds from the eggplant, so no need to remove them. After peeling, transfer to a dry bowl thatβs separate from peppers.
- The next step is to either cut or grind down eggplants and peppers. Keep them separate. Start with the eggplant first. If you choose to cut them down, ajvar will be tastier and chunkier. But will take a long time. If you opt for this, cut the vegetables (separately, and eggplant first) into stripes first, and then dice into smallest possible pieces, while keeping the juices. If you use the grinder, grind each vegetable down into a separate pan, again keeping the juices.
- Take a large pot that will fit in all ingredients and still have a few empty inches on top. Fill it with oil the thickness of one finger. Warm up the oil until really hot on high, and add eggplant. Stir eggplant in really well, and simmer for 15-20 minutes. Stir frequently.
- Bring down the temperature to low and add grinded peppers in. Stir well. Ajvar will be cooking for the next four and a half to five hours (please see my note about stoves regarding the time). The ingredients will essentially be boiling most of the time, and the air bubbles will be coming out. Itβs imperative to continue stirring ajvar throughout the entire cooking time, that's every few minutes, to prevent burning. You will also be adding about 3-4 cups of oil to the pan throughout the cooking process, a little at a time every fifteen minutes or so. Stirring is a tedious process, but if you skip it, your entire effort will be wasted. Basically, as you are stirring ajvar, you are making sure itβs not burning, and youβre adding some oil at regular intervals while stirring.
- After about four hours of cooking, add in sugar and continue stirring.
- At the very end of cooking, after about four and a half to five hours, add in salt. Meanwhile, heat oven to 250F. Wash several jars in hot, soapy water and rinse well. Pat dry. Place on a baking sheet and put in the oven. Warm them up for fifteen minutes. This will sterilize them.
- Once the jars are hot, and the ajvar is turned off (itβs still extremely hot so be careful) youβll be transferring hot ajvar to hot jars. If you have another pair of gloves this is a good time to wear them. Use thick kitchen mittens to pick up jars to protect your hands and fingers. Be very careful while you transfer ajvar into jars. Do jars one by one, and fill each up to the top, leaving the part where the ridges empty (so fill up almost to the top, leaving the top portion empty).
- After youβve filled up a jar, take a spoon, and press ajvar all the way into the jar, making sure there are no air bubbles left in the jar. Air is what makes ajvar go bad, so do not skip this step. Do it meticulously and do it for every jar.
- When all the jars have been filled up, place them on a baking sheet and return to the warm, but turned off oven, without lids. Itβs best if theyβre left overnight, or at least several hours. A crust will form on the top of ajvar in each jar. The crust is basically ajvar thatβs hardened and darkened. This will be a thin but hard layer. At this point, take out the jars, pour a few tablespoons of oil on top of the crust in each jar, and screw lids on tightly.
- Keep ajvar in a dark and cool place. There is no need to it in the fridge until you open the jar. However, as soon as you open each jar, when not eating ajvar, it will have to be in the fridge. As you open a jar of ajvar for the first time, first pour out the oil that was on top, stir the ajvar in jar, and then use.
- Ajvar can last several months like this. Of course, it wonβt last that long because itβs too delicious.
Notes
In absence of bullβs horn peppers, use red bell peppers. (Make sure to only use the red kind.) Do not make the mistake of buying how cow hot peppers.
The original recipe calls for 22 pounds of bull hornβs peppers to 7 pounds of eggplant. I always buy more ingredients because you never know if the peppers will be easy to peel. Some arenβt, and you lose a portion of them. Even within bullβs horn peppers, it is hard to determine which batch of peppers will be good for ajvar and easy to peel.
If using oven rack instead of a baking pan, just know it'll be faster but the rack will get a little damaged during the process.
For ajvar with smoky aroma and taste, roast peppers and eggplants on a wood stove (if you have one). Otherwise, a regular stove will do great. However there is a difference in time if you are cooking on a gas stove versus electric. Electric stove in this case is better for ajvar, and you will cook on the low setting. Gas stoves on the low setting still end up giving off a higher level of heat and thus the cooking time is cut short (to about 2.5 hours). Although this seems like a better deal, for the this recipe you really want to cook longer, to give the ingredients a chance to really achieve a certain deep taste. Therefore if you have one of those stoves with both gas and electric, cook ajvar on the electric range. You've already put in so many hours of work, what's a couple of more?
How to recognize your ajvar as being done? Look for the deep orange hue, making sure it's not moving over to the brown tones. Check with a spoon or a spatula that it is creamy. Try it, and test if it's to your liking.
Obviously it would be faster to just use one rack. However youβd have more batches of peppers and eggplants to do. In the long run, youβre better off using two racks, or a rack and bottom of the oven.
You donβt have to wear latex gloves, but youβll protect your fingers if you do.
Keep smaller kids away from the kitchen while cooking ajvar. The ingredients are essentially boiling the entire time, so you want to prevent any accidents.
Itβs hard to give an exact amount of jars needed. Just have about 10-15 smaller jars ready. The smaller they are, the better, (and obviously youβll need more if you have very small ones). Why? If you put ajvar in a big jar, and leave it in the fridge and then forget about, itβll go bad after a while and youβll be wasting all that effort. When you have a small jar (weβre talking 12-ish ounces or so, you can even use baby food jars) youβll use up that ajvar quickly, and youβll use up all of it. Smaller jars are also great as gifts.
You can double the amount of ingredients and make a larger batch. It'll take a little bit longer during peeling and roasting, but the cooking process stays the same. If you're feeling adventurous I urge you to try doing this.
If you have any questions, please do not hesitate to ask. This is a time consuming project, but itβs one the best things youβll make in your life. Thatβs a promise.
Ginger Smith says
I really liked your story and the history of Ajvar. I made it for the first time last week using a recipe from Mediterranean Cooking by Paula Wolfert. In her recipe she used green Italian peppers and a hot green pepper with the eggplant. I was surprised to see this because when I heard people talking about it they used red bell peppers and a poblano pepper (an adapted recipe of Paula Wolfert). I realize that every household or town probably has its own method of making ajvar. It is one of the trademarks of centuries of passing down traditions and recipes, I will keep your recipe on hand and on a fall day when I am feeling in the mood to spend it all cooking, I will make your ajvar. Thank you.
Aida says
Ginger,
How lovely! You're right about traditions - even within one family people make the same dish differently. Let me know how your ajvar turns out if you use the recipe.
Casey Smith says
If I roast the Peppers and the Eggplant over embers on a Weber Kettle BBQ I should achieve a nice
extra smokey flavours ? Also we have a gas / electric stove , gas burners and electric oven. Do you
reckon cooking in th oven on a very low temperature , 120 degree celsius, , in a cast iron French Oven
would be a good alternative to stove top cooking.
Cheers
Melbourne , Australia
Aida says
Hi Casey,
I'm not familiar with your type of BBQ, but from a quick Google I do reckon it would work, as essentially peppers can be roasted anywhere. And yes, they're def more flavorful roasted this way.
I've never done ajvar in a cast iron French Oven, or in the oven for that matter. But I don't see why not. Yes, you'd cook it really low, and make sure to continually stir it while adding a little bit oil in every fifteen minutes or so.
My only reason against the oven is that you'll have to open and close it every few minutes to move the cookware to stir your ajvar. It may get annoying, and you could potentially spill some and burn yourself. So if you do it in the oven just be mindful of this. Also, if you have children, I'd recommend keeping them from the kitchen in general, during ajvar making due to the potential for injury.
If you do it, let me know how it went!
Cheers
Alijana says
Would a food processor work instead of a meat grinder?
Sam says
I made this last week with some bull horn peppers, it tastes exactly like the pepper spread we ate in Janche, Macedonia! Itβs perfect and well worth the effort, also we pressure canned some of it and the taste was not affected.
★★★★★
Aida says
Nice! What else have you canned before?
David says
can't these be hot-water bath canned?
this preservation process is a bit different (unconventional?)
-just checking..
★★★★
Aida says
It's not at all unconventional, it's just that hot-water bath canning is more popular around your parts. Yes, you can do it your way though.
Janine C. says
Je n'ai qu'un coin cuisine alors je préfère l'acheter en bocaux. De ce fait, pourriez-vous m'indiquer le nom du produit piquant à commander ? Je vous en remercie par avance. J'habite la France mais j'ai goûté ce produit chez ma belle fille qui est Macédonienne et qui l'a amené a son retour dans mon pays et J ai beaucoip apprécié.
Je vous remercie de toutes ces gentilles explications dΓ©taillΓ©es dites avec un charmant accent par les mots choisis et du temps consacrΓ© pour nous faire partager votre passion culinaire de votre pays. Cela ne peut donc qu'Γͺtre parfait.π
★★★★★
Aida says
Dear Janine,
Thank you for your lovely comment! I am glad the recipe evoked nice memories for you. Sorry to be unable to help, but I do not know which stores are in your neighborhood, or which may carry ajvar. There must be some though, and I recommend a Google or a FB search. Best of luck!
Aida
Here's the comment via Google translate:
Chère Janine,
Merci pour vos commentaires adorables! Je suis heureux que la recette Γ©voque de bons souvenirs pour vous. DΓ©solΓ© de ne pas pouvoir vous aider, mais je ne sais pas quels magasins se trouvent dans votre voisinage ni quels magasins peuvent transporter ajvar. Il doit y en avoir cependant, et je recommande une recherche Google ou FB. Bonne chance!
Aida
Lili says
I love Ajvar. I was born in Kazakhstan and Ajvar is very popular there too. My mom uses it in lots of her dishes, kind of like a seasoning. We always by a ready Ajvar at our local Russian store. So I am very excited to find this recipe to make it myself.
Aida says
Lili that is so exciting to hear! (And not only because I've been wanting to go to Kazakhstan for years, it looks magical.) It takes a while to make, but you do end up with a huge batch which is a plus. Welcome to the blog! π
Jeremy says
Hi Aida,
I would like to say thank you for posting your family ajvar recipe. I have had no experience in the Balkans, but my closest friend lives in Sweden and I have spent much time there. There is a strong Serbian influence in Gothenburg where he lives due to the many refugees from the Balkan war. That is where I was first introduced to (commercial) Ajvar. After many years abroad, I moved back to the US at the beginning of last year. In an attempt to continue holding onto some of the European culture that I gained, I came across your recipe, and I love it. It results in that very creamy version that I love so much. I have successfully made this recipe about three times, albeit at smaller scales. However, this weekend I attempted the recipe again after I found a local supermarket to have the bull's horn peppers. I spent a fair bit of money and scooped them all up, however the outcome has been less than satisfactory. I used the broiler for roasting of the peppers and eggplants, which went well. I smashed and chopped them, the same as I did in the past. However, after 5 hours of cooking on low, a creaminess has not developed. I have only been able to obtain this deep, deep red colour with a salsa-like texture. Does this perhaps mean that I burnt them at some step? Or perhaps used too much oil? Any help in problem solving would be very appreciated. There is too much time and money required in this for things to go bad. Again, many thanks for the recipe and any help.
Kind regards
Aida says
Hi Jeremy,
From your stories it seems you're well traveled and that you enjoy international dishes. Kudos! Glad ajvar made it to your table as well.
I asked a few ajvar experts about your issue and here's what we've been able to come up with. Hope that helps for the next time.
1. The peppers themselves. They're supposed to be thick and juicy. Sometimes it's good to cut one up before buying them to assure they're of a good quality.
2. Did you leave eggplant and peppers to cool overnight or at least several hours? This step is important to get the extra fluid out.
3. Have you been stirring ajvar patiently and frequently?
4. Finally, sometimes, even with all these steps it simply doesn't come out and this happens to everyone at least once in their "ajvar career." It can be frustrating for sure.
Kind regards,
A.
Lindsey C says
Hello! I know its been a while since you've written this recipe but I stumbled upon it last september and follwed your recipe exactly! As promised, it was a LOT of work, but the results were absolutely amazing! Best consistency, flavor, color! My only issue is that I opened a jar recently, poured out the oil on top, and tried it and it had a slight carbonation to it. Did it ferment? Has this ever happened to you (or your mom)? Am I going to die from botulism? π but seriouslyπ³
Thanks! Hope to hear from you!
-Lindsey
Aida says
Hi Lindsey,
Thanks for writing.
Glad you liked it made this way of making ajvar. It's timeless, so even though it was posted on the blog a while ago, nothing changed in the way it's prepared.
However, it does have its expiration date.
If you made it in September, it's probably gone bad by now. You won't die of botulism π but next time consume it within 4-6 months of making (closer to 4 is better). Keep in mind that the jars should be in cool, preferably dark place this entire time. And as soon as you open it, keep it in the fridge and consume it within 7-10 days (if you can hold out that long).
So... Go ahead and chuck that sour jar, and wait for this September to make a new batch of ajvar which you'll consume by January.
Best,
Aida
Cook says
How different would this recipe come out if I had to use regular red bell peppers instead of bullhorns?
Cook says
But flavor-wise....do you think it'd be the same as with bullhorn peppers? I just can't find them....unless you have any ideas on where/how to get them in the U.S.? Thank you!!
Aida says
It won't be the same - bell peppers seem to have more water content, and are not as specifically sweet as the bullhorn peppers. However it will still be good. Just make sure you only choose red bell peppers.
As far as where to get them in the US your best bet is to ask around at your local farmer's market. I have trouble finding them in the US. A friend of mine bought seeds online and planted her own.
Cook says
I'm sorry but your answers above are very confusing. First you said regular red bell peppers would be "more watery and sweet" -- and then you said regular red bell peppers are "not as specifically sweet as the bullhorn peppers." So, are regular bell peppers more sweet, or not as sweet, as bullhorns? Thank you!
(I wish I had time -- and good enough soil -- to grow actual bullhorns, but I unfortunately don't.)
Aida says
Let me rephrase - give it a shot and see if you like it.
If you're worried about it go to an ethnic/ international store and buy some to save yourself time and worry.
Cook says
I did buy a jar, which I will compare to what I make from scratch -- that's my whole experiment! π
...but I still don't understand if you are saying that regular bell peppers will be sweeter, or not as sweet, as bullhorns?